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Ron-00
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Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 510
Location: Frankfort, Ky.
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 Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Jean,
I didn't miss your point at all.... 
This would still bring the extra money in to the club from gates fee's and entry fee's and not lengthen the day as it could be combined with other classes already on the class structure list.
And, as I said this is the way things are going as WKA already has it as a standard class offering and I see the potential for this class to be a Masters class in the future too...
So, you may have missed my point here...LOL
Ron
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The Ky. Hillbilly Karter
Gordon Racing 00
Frankfort, Kentucky |
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Frankie Schaffier
Sportsman
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 83
Location: Fostoria, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Jean,
Any update from the club? I have confirmed another shop "Stoney Creek" that will chip in $100 to the year end point fund.
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Frankie Schaffier
Burris Racing
Stoney Creek Motorsports
#94 Komet Piston Valve Heavy |
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Scott Benson
Senior Novice
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 208
Location: West Chester, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ok,.. Maybe I am missing something but, do we really need yet another class to thinout the senior classes we already have?
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Scott Benson
Benson Axle Straightening
scott7@one.net
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Gary Osterholt
Master
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 743
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Scott,
If the club can get 3 or 4 more entries why does it matter?
Plus WKA can't say anything about racing like classes together. They did it at Daytona in TAG Heavy/TAG Masters.
And HPV4 and Yamaha Pipe are very close in speed too.
Gary |
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Ron-00
Master
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 510
Location: Frankfort, Ky.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Benson wrote: | | Ok,.. Maybe I am missing something but, do we really need yet another class to thinout the senior classes we already have? |
Scott,
I think Jean and the others see the KPV pipe as a wave of the future class in karting and the sooner it get in the local scene the sooner people will get used to it and see the way/ways karting is going...
That's how I read into this stuff....
And also, extra income for the club never hurts, might get that new restroom facility, Electric & water hook-ups in the pits and other improvements faster too...
Ron
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The Ky. Hillbilly Karter
Gordon Racing 00
Frankfort, Kentucky |
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patrick slattery
Master
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1345
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron-00 wrote: | | Scott Benson wrote: | | Ok,.. Maybe I am missing something but, do we really need yet another class to thinout the senior classes we already have? |
Scott,
I think Jean and the others see the KPV pipe as a wave of the future class in karting and the sooner it get in the local scene the sooner people will get used to it and see the way/ways karting is going...
That's how I read into this stuff....
And also, extra income for the club never hurts, might get that new restroom facility, Electric & water hook-ups in the pits and other improvements faster too...
Ron |
Ron I like the HPV but I would not call it the wave of the future. It has been around for the about 15 years or so. In fact my son was the first racers at a WKA event to stick the motor in one. Ron Withrow made a trophy out of the piston. LOL
It actually has been on the decline for some time and was a class at OVKA in the late 90's and than fell flat and went away. I think it is a good package and need a chance to grow. Part of the problem was the rising cost and lack of support and parts from Horstman. Hopefully with the new caretaker of the Engine it will grow.
Pat
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PAT SLATTERY
ARROW KARTS
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Scott Benson
Senior Novice
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 208
Location: West Chester, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Gary Osterholt wrote: | Scott,
If the club can get 3 or 4 more entries why does it matter? |
If that would happen that would be great! I dont think that is reality.
Hey!!! Maybe next year we can have "KPV Masters", and "KPV Super heavy"
and who knows what else!! We will have 28 classes and each class will have 3 or 4 karts in it. Wow What fun!!! 
Ron, weve seen HPV senior come and go before. Long before your time.
This I predict will do the same give it time...This is just another flash in the pan. Here today gone tomorrow.
oh well...Just my opinion. Good luck I hope it works for whoever.
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Scott Benson
Benson Axle Straightening
scott7@one.net
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Ron-00
Master
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 510
Location: Frankfort, Ky.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Scott Benson wrote: |
Hey!!! Maybe next year we can have "KPV Masters", and "KPV Super heavy"
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Scott,
You so Crazy.................
That, was my same thought, I think heavy should be set at about 480 and masters at 400, too....LOL
And mabey we could have a Lawnmower Class too....
Ron
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Gordon Racing 00
Frankfort, Kentucky |
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marlon evans
Pitcrew member
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| yamaha yamah yamaha yamaha ...ovka use to have a piston port class they ran yamaha and k 71 together that was in the 80's the k 71 is what we call the kpv now ......but like i said yamaha yamaha yamaha yamaha |
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Frankie Schaffier
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Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 83
Location: Fostoria, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Scott,
I totally understand what your saying and I don’t disagree. The last thing needed is more classes. If I had my way there would be a light and heavy “Piston Port” that includes both the Yam’s and the Komet. That’s it…. Get rid of the loud soup cans and soup cans on a stick for exhaust systems and be done with it. Did they try it once before and have it fail, yep… But that included the JICA engines that were becoming one-race engines and everyone bailed due to costs.
As Gary says, the difference between the Yam Pipes and KPV is nil. I went through and matched up lap times at the nationals using the same drivers comparing their times in Yam Pipe and KPV Heavy. All were within tenths.. If you’re winning in a Yam pipe, your not going to lose because an old slow guy like me showed up with a Komet. If you got beat by a guy on a Komet, he’ll beat you with a Yam also.
Would I have a problem with combining the Yam’s with the Komet? Not in the least, the more the merrier. Will the Komet be another class that just comes and goes? Maybe, then again maybe not. On the national level the numbers for the Komets are certainly higher then the Yam Pipe. I don’t see the WKA keeping the Yam pipe as a class next year unless they combine them with the Komets like I’ve mentioned above. And the Komet senior numbers will glow quite a bit this year due to the Jr’s that are moving up. Though I see that the Yam pipe class still avg's about 7 entries per race at Camden, which is very good.
The “Master Class”. Great idea when it started out. It provided a class to keep the “senior” drivers out of the chaos of 15 year old’s that were hell bent. Did it work? Yeah.. Sorta.. Though I have ran masters at the nationals, and there was plenty of chaos there too at times.. Do we need a “Master KPV”? Nope, there are not enough guys out there running them at this point. Sometime down the road on the national level, maybe. I don’t see it on the local level.
Jean and guys like myself are not looking to dilute the current classes. We’re not asking the club to make us a class, we’re just saying “hey can we run our karts with one of your classes?” We can stager the starts, we won’t be in anyone’s way, we’ll pay entries, buy fuel, buy tires, buy hotdogs, etc etc.. We are just looking for some place to run.. Simple!
And we’re not asking everyone to sell his or her Yam’s and buy Komets. The Yam’s are a great motor, and probably saved karting. Would it be cool if some of the can guys started running Komets? Sure, but that’s not the intent. We’re just looking to run this great engine package locally and have fun, that’s it. We’ve got a few folks to chip in some money for year-end awards, again just for the fun of it. Plus, that keeps the club from having to buy trophies or having provide us with awards of any kind.
If the club doesn’t feel it’s right to allow the Komet to run, I’m fine with that. If that’s their decision, I’m sure they’ll have reasons that make sense for the club.
Marlon,
Your right, the Yam used to be combined with the K71 in some clubs.. I ran K71's in the 80's then sold it to run reeds. The K71 was a good package then too. I can't answer why it dropped off. I thought there was a weight break for the Yam when it ran against the K71, but I could be wrong. I'd have to go back and hunt down an old tech manual.
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Frankie Schaffier
Burris Racing
Stoney Creek Motorsports
#94 Komet Piston Valve Heavy |
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patrick slattery
Master
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1345
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Yamaha is the backbone of 2cyl racing and hopefully it will stay that way.
Shifters have come and gone, TAG started out big and has fallen back some, not much of a factor at our Club level. If you took away Yamaha at our club the 4 cycle classes would dominant. 
Pat
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PAT SLATTERY
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patrick slattery
Master
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1345
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Scott Benson wrote: | | Gary Osterholt wrote: | Scott,
If the club can get 3 or 4 more entries why does it matter? |
If that would happen that would be great! I dont think that is reality.
Hey!!! Maybe next year we can have "KPV Masters", and "KPV Super heavy"
and who knows what else!! We will have 28 classes and each class will have 3 or 4 karts in it. Wow What fun!!!
Scott I have to agree, we don't need to dilute the senior classes.
Ron I hope the can on the stick class works but we shall see. Out on the West Coast they now have a Yamaha class with the KPV 3 pipe which makes even more power than the Stick can. Might have been a better alternative but we got what we got.
Pat
Ron, weve seen HPV senior come and go before. Long before your time.
This I predict will do the same give it time...This is just another flash in the pan. Here today gone tomorrow.
oh well...Just my opinion. Good luck I hope it works for whoever. |
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THE VOICE OF REASON
PAT SLATTERY
ARROW KARTS
WOLTJER ENGINES
L&T CLUTCHES
MYCHRON GAUGES |
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Jean Stafford
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 1203
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Frankie Schaffier wrote: | Jean,
Any update from the club? I have confirmed another shop "Stoney Creek" that will chip in $100 to the year end point fund. |
Not as of yet Frankie.
Slattery Racing has offered to put in $100 too, as has Deis Racing. Pat is in the Car business and it ain't so good right now, so that's a strong committment from Pat. Thanks Pat. John is ine the engine business, and with 10"" of snow here, it ain't so good either.
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Jean Stafford
Stafford's Racing
http://www.staffordracing.webs.com/
4606 Webster St.
Dayton, Ohio
937-277-9944
E-Mail: Jean@sgandt.com |
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Jean Stafford
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 1203
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Scott Benson wrote: | | Ok,.. Maybe I am missing something but, do we really need yet another class to thinout the senior classes we already have? |
Scott,
I'm not asking for a "New Class" i'm just asking for those who do show up to be allowed to race, that's all. Right now the ONLy classes they will allow are those on the list, and reading the "Rules" it means that if other than those show up they won't be allowed to race, at all. In today's economy, I just don't think that's smart. The four Kart statement san be interpreted to mean that those four karts must be in the specified classes. I'm just suggesting that four Karts of any class should be allowed to compete, that's all.
Additionally, I would expect the group to run with a like class, sayYamaha pipe, which was small last year. They could start in front, or behind some amount, and shouldn't interfere with anyone. No additional time required, and since the likelyhood of stripping another class would come from the Yamaha pipe class, it would be difficult for them to run both classes. Since the race schedule will be for only five races, at most, it probably wouldn't affect the pipe class in favor of the "Komet Class".
I would hope that some drivers from away venues would participate in these five races, increasing the Kart count, and maybe the coffers of the "Local Club". I would also think that some drivers and teams might just see how the engine performs and lives throughout the year, and want to jump on the wagon for the future. There are a lot of the older HPV engines around, let's give them a place to race.
As far as "thinning" another class, what class would that be? It isn't like we want to add weight to make it equal for heavier guys, or split Yamaha Can, or take drivers from there. Competing in this group would pretty much require the purchase of additional equipment, or, rounding up drivers from those who already own an HPV, or Komet Piston valve engine for WKA. While that may include a few drivers from the "Local Club" it is less likely since most of them are just Juniors at this time.
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Jean Stafford
Stafford's Racing
http://www.staffordracing.webs.com/
4606 Webster St.
Dayton, Ohio
937-277-9944
E-Mail: Jean@sgandt.com |
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marlon evans
Pitcrew member
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| you are right frankie there was a weight diference but it wasnt enough ,and then there was the old macs with open fuel to deal with ! I also went to the reed valve engines and they are still my favorite . |
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Ron-00
Master
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 510
Location: Frankfort, Ky.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Stafford wrote: | It isn't like we want to add weight to make it equal for heavier guys, or split Yamaha Can, or take drivers from there.
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Jean,
We all know what this old argument is about and it is dead and untrue in nature and you know that this was not the case as originally drafted by the first few.....
Secondly as you said:
| Quote: | | Competing in this group would pretty much require the purchase of additional equipment, or, rounding up drivers from those who already own an HPV, or Komet Piston valve engine for WKA. While that may include a few drivers from the "Local Club" it is less likely since most of them are just Juniors at this time |
This is redundant to the class you are refering to in the first quote, as this was the same as shown for it.
( replace "drivers from those who already own an HPV, or Komet Piston valve engine for WKA." with drivers that already are too heavy for thier class to be competitive and own a KT100 and replace "them are just Juniors at this time", with the present can drivers can't make the driver weight to start with.)
If you must use analogies in your post please find a new one that has merit and leave the original SBX class stucture out of it...
Most all of the people that read this forum can read between the lines and its getting old....
Thanks, Ron
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The Ky. Hillbilly Karter
Gordon Racing 00
Frankfort, Kentucky |
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Jean Stafford
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 1203
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| patrick slattery wrote: | Yamaha is the backbone of 2cyl racing and hopefully it will stay that way.
Shifters have come and gone, TAG started out big and has fallen back some, not much of a factor at our Club level. If you took away Yamaha at our club the 4 cycle classes would dominant.
Pat |
What! All eight of them???
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Jean Stafford
Stafford's Racing
http://www.staffordracing.webs.com/
4606 Webster St.
Dayton, Ohio
937-277-9944
E-Mail: Jean@sgandt.com |
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Jean Stafford
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 1203
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Ron-00 wrote: | | Jean Stafford wrote: | It isn't like we want to add weight to make it equal for heavier guys, or split Yamaha Can, or take drivers from there.
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Jean,
We all know what this old argument is about and it is dead and untrue in nature and you know that this was not the case as originally drafted by the first few.....
Thanks, Ron |
See if you can follow this:
1. DON"T WANT A POINTS CLASS!!! Too damn much emphasis on points now as it is.
2. JUST WANT A GROUP TO BE ALLOWED TO RUN THIS ENGINE PACKAGE!!
3. I HAVE SUFFICIENT COMMITTMENTS FOR A PURSE OF $500.00 AT THIS TIME.
I don't know how this got off onto some tangent of taking karts from other classes. Either you want to participate five times a year, or not. Doesn't bother me which way you choose to go. Read Item #1!
HPV, KVP has been around for a long time, and has had some problems of availibility of parts in the past. Don't think that'll be an issue going forward.
As far as Lite, Heavy, Masters, Fat Boyz, SUMO, or whatever you want to call it, you might be right, in the future. Not now. And, not ever, if this effort goes, as far as I'm concerned. This is an effort to gather a group of Karters together for the express purpose of winning cash. You don't want it? Fine! I'm reasonably sure I can find a track that's willing to take a chance within their own program. This isn't about anything other than racing.
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Jean Stafford
Stafford's Racing
http://www.staffordracing.webs.com/
4606 Webster St.
Dayton, Ohio
937-277-9944
E-Mail: Jean@sgandt.com
Last edited by Jean Stafford on Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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chadwilson
Master
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Oxford, OH
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Racing for cash is a fine reason to race. |
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Doug Stempfley II
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Trenton, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds cut and dry simple to me. |
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